Wednesday, 2013-12-04

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joarbkuhn: morning!15:12
bkuhnHey joar , how are things going?15:12
joarbkuhn: I got some feedback on my post to the ML, so that's good. The evaluations aren't entirely finished yet as I suspect you gathered if you reviewed them this monday15:13
bkuhnI actually had a bunch of audit stuff happen, and didn't look at them in detail.15:13
bkuhnKeep working through them.15:14
bkuhnThe auditors got back to us with a bunch of questions that I'm working through.15:14
bkuhnSorry it's got me so distracted15:14
bkuhnjoar: if you hit a blocker and need my attention, please do ping me.15:19
bkuhnjoar: I have a call set up with BeanBooks people about their license on Thursday.  It seems unlikely they'll change it.15:19
bkuhnjoar: can you give me the short version of likely outcome: do any of the evals look like they'll produce something we want to use, or should we just start focusing on this API idea/15:19
joarbkuhn: I don't think any of the applications will be a perfect match15:20
bkuhnIs there anything we'll want to reuse?15:21
joarPerhaps, but in that case it would be used as reference.15:21
joarbut I don't have enough knowledge of the internals of any of these projects to objectively decide that.15:22
joarIf we would want to reuse code, we should perform a separate evaluation based on that15:22
joarand I think that if we're building an API we should reinvent the wheel for that and use existing projects for reference.15:23
bkuhnOk, this makes sense to me.15:24
joarbkuhn: I would appreciate if you could perform the evaluations of npo-ledger-cli (if you feel that it's usable for the public at this point) and ledger-cli.15:26
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bkuhnjoar: well, my thinking is that if we should use ledger-cli as the back-end for the API.16:00
bkuhnIt's the only system I know of that has implemented double entry accounting by itself, not tied into a larger system16:00
joarbkuhn: all right, so I might as well take a look at it.16:01
bkuhnyeah, please do.  See if you think that's a doable way to proceed.16:02
bkuhnIt's certainly going be easier than implementing the double entry accounting again ourselves.16:02
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joarbkuhn: is cash disbursements equal to cash flow?22:09
bkuhnjoar: I'm not actually sure.22:10
bkuhnI'd have to look it up.22:10
bkuhnwhy do you ask?22:10
joarI don't grok the "cash disbursements" report format.22:10
joar.. so I'm trying to find resources on it regarding ledger-cli, and I can't find anything on "cash disbursements".22:11
joarI'll look at the definitions.22:11
joarcash disbursements is the total non-accrued expenses for a defined period, is that correct?22:12
bkuhnI thought a cash disbursements report was cash equivalents paid for a period.22:13
bkuhnjust a report of those22:13
bkuhnBut, Ledger-cli doesn't think in these terms22:13
bkuhnit's very bare bones22:13
bkuhnAs you see, the contrib area non-profit-audit-reports has reports like that...22:13
bkuhn ... b/c ledger doesn't have them natively22:13
joarbut cash equivs. and non-accroued expenses could reasonably be assumed to be the same, right?22:13
bkuhnI think so.22:14
bkuhnI'm not sure though.22:14
bkuhnI'd have to ask an accountant or look at a book.22:14
bkuhnFor example22:14
bkuhnYou might pay cash for something that's not an expense22:14
bkuhnlike, a refund.22:14
joarwould a refund not be registered as an expense in the books?22:14
bkuhnnot usually22:15
bkuhnIt would be a reversal against some income account, at least that's how Conservancy accounts for it.22:15
bkuhnMaybe we do it wrong, I dunno.22:15
joarThat sounds reasonable though.22:16
bkuhnYeah, I think we're doing it right.22:16
bkuhnat least, our auditors have never complained.22:16
bkuhn(well, not about that)22:16
bkuhnThey complain about a lot of other things. :)22:16
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bkuhnjoar: hm, I hadn't realized that John had abandoned the ledger3 codebase. :-/22:37
joarbkuhn: he has?22:37
bkuhnjoar: given that, I think it might make sense to work with an API that, as paroneayea suggested, just calls Ledger3 via the CLI for now.22:38
bkuhnWell, so, we should ask him I guess.  join #ledger, joar.  (should probably put it on auto join list)22:38
joardid you see any announcement re: the abandonement of ledger3?22:44
joarStill active as of
bkuhnjoar: well, johnw has been mentioning.22:52
bkuhnjoar: good question to him.22:52
bkuhnjoar: the more I think about this, what might make sense is for our API and library to read and write Ledger format.22:59
bkuhnI'm thinking there's a storage API first.23:00
bkuhnwhich just stores transactions.23:00
bkuhnthat's what I was thinking of in the StorageAPI wiki post I wrote.23:00
bkuhnand there's another API, which is the 'real' REST API  that applications talk to.23:00
joarSo a pluggable accounting data storage API that can store as CSV, ledger, SQL?23:04

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