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| CarlosRuiz | Hello, anybody here? | 16:26 |
|---|---|---|
| bkuhn | greetings, CarlosRuiz . | 16:48 |
| CarlosRuiz | hello bkuhn | 17:00 |
| CarlosRuiz | I was reading today about sfconservancy | 17:01 |
| bkuhn | greetings, CarlosRuiz. | 17:01 |
| bkuhn | I'm glad! | 17:01 |
| CarlosRuiz | and found interesting that you're trying to create an accounting software for NPO | 17:01 |
| bkuhn | We're trying, slowly but surely. :) | 17:01 |
| CarlosRuiz | I'm one of the leaders of http://www.idempiere.org/ | 17:01 |
| CarlosRuiz | an open source ERP software | 17:02 |
| CarlosRuiz | and of course one of the modules we have in the software is accounting | 17:02 |
| bkuhn | Is it at all similar to ADempiere? | 17:02 |
| CarlosRuiz | yes - we departed from Adempiere in 2010 | 17:03 |
| bkuhn | You'll see our evaluation of ADempiere at http://npoacct.sfconservancy.org/ExistingProjects/ADempiere/ If you want to fill out a new evaluation form for yours, noting in particular how it differs we'd love that. | 17:04 |
| bkuhn | Meanwhile, one of my medium-term plans (hopefully in the next 16 months or so) is to solidify our API somewhat, and I hope to actually offer patches to many projects, perhaps idempiere as well, to use our accounting API. | 17:04 |
| bkuhn | CarlosRuiz: did you implement double-entry accounting from scratch? | 17:05 |
| bkuhn | (Most projects seem to) | 17:05 |
| CarlosRuiz | iDempiere (inherited from Compiere) has an interesting approach to accounting | 17:05 |
| CarlosRuiz | accounting is a datawarehouse - collecting all possible facts from all the events that happen in a company | 17:06 |
| CarlosRuiz | and from there - accounting reporting is similar to what you do in a Business Intelligence project - dimensions, cubes, analytical information | 17:08 |
| bkuhn | It should be possible to use the API we're working on if you wanted to. | 17:09 |
| bkuhn | But do you have a double-entry system and logic already? | 17:09 |
| CarlosRuiz | yes - accounting is part of the ERP | 17:10 |
| CarlosRuiz | I mean - double-entry accounting | 17:11 |
| CarlosRuiz | I'm wondering what is the goal of the npoacct project - is just accounting? or you plan to support the full process for NPO (like bank, purchasing) | 17:16 |
| bkuhn | CarlosRuiz: we | 18:23 |
| bkuhn | 'll do what we can for NPOs. | 18:23 |
| bkuhn | Accounting is the first step. | 18:23 |
| bkuhn | The problem I've seen with many ERP applications is they are too complex and require a substantial time investment for the organization to begin using them. | 18:23 |
| bkuhn | I would hate to repeat that mistake. | 18:23 |
| CarlosRuiz | well - it depends on the goal you want to achieve | 18:25 |
| bkuhn | Most ERP applications have been developed with a specific market segment in mind, and they are not particularly adaptable to other markets. | 18:25 |
| CarlosRuiz | I read the evaluation template | 18:25 |
| CarlosRuiz | http://npoacct.sfconservancy.org/ExistingProjects/EvaluationTemplate/ | 18:25 |
| CarlosRuiz | and I think iDempiere can cope with all of that - but is a different point of view | 18:25 |
| CarlosRuiz | accounting is not the center of the application - and not the first step - accounting is a result of the operations of the company | 18:26 |
| bkuhn | CarlosRuiz: yes, any ERP systems claim that and then make it difficult to do the basic accounting reports that most NPOs need. | 18:26 |
| bkuhn | I have attempted to deploy many different ERP systems for non-profits over the last 15 years. | 18:27 |
| bkuhn | They time investment is huge and the auditors are still angry they can't get the reports they need. | 18:27 |
| bkuhn | If there's tutorial on how to do all these accounting things that we're trying to solve with iDempiere out of the box from an apt-get install, I'll be very interested to follow your tutorial. | 18:28 |
| bkuhn | I didn't decide to start a different project lightly by any means, as you can see in our wiki, we evaluated many systems first. | 18:28 |
| CarlosRuiz | I'm sure that iDempiere is ready to be used in an NPO - probably without any customization - is just a matter of configuration | 18:29 |
| CarlosRuiz | but of course the learning curve is steep - as in any ERP | 18:29 |
| bkuhn | That's a serious problem and it's why these ERP systems are never going to be widely used by non-profit orgs. | 18:30 |
| CarlosRuiz | we can help - specially for an organization with the goal of sfconservancy | 18:30 |
| bkuhn | They just can't afford the learning curve. | 18:30 |
| bkuhn | CarlosRuiz: as I said, if you write a tutorial that shows how everything a fiscal sponsor needs to do can be done with iDempiere, I'll dutifully follow the tutorial and give feedback. | 18:30 |
| CarlosRuiz | sorry - it won't work that way :-( | 18:31 |
| bkuhn | I'm confused, what way would it work? | 18:31 |
| bkuhn | how else could a non-profit figure out how to use your system for non-profit needs? | 18:31 |
| bkuhn | without being told how? | 18:31 |
| CarlosRuiz | I mean - I'm not eager to write a tutorial in order to allow somebody to do a proof of concept - there are lots of howtos out there | 18:33 |
| bkuhn | Are you aware of any fiscal sponsor non-profit using iDempiere today? | 18:34 |
| CarlosRuiz | but - what I say is - if you would be willing to evaluate unbiasedly the capabitilites of iDempiere on a NGO - I'll be eager to help with that | 18:35 |
| CarlosRuiz | we help a lot in iDempiere forums to anybody evaluating the system - is very common | 18:35 |
| bkuhn | CarlosRuiz: It seems you just want me to spend a lot of time figuring out if iDempiere can do very basic things and haven't even given me enough info to get started. | 18:37 |
| bkuhn | Many folks have been by to ask us to do that. | 18:37 |
| bkuhn | We figured out that if we did this for every ERP code base , it would be a multi-year project. | 18:37 |
| bkuhn | As Josh mentioned on the ADempiere evaluation -- the code seems impenetrable. | 18:37 |
| bkuhn | CarlosRuiz: I also notice that iDempiere isn't even packaged for Debian yet, although it seems http://wiki.idempiere.org/en/IDempiere_Debian_Installer has some detailed instructions that would take some time to penetrate by themselves. | 18:38 |
| CarlosRuiz | that debian installer works with "dpkg -i" | 18:41 |
| bkuhn | CarlosRuiz: Is there a tutorial on how to import existing accounting data into iDempiere? | 18:42 |
| CarlosRuiz | probably you see "code is impenetrable" because we're talking about millions of lines of code | 18:42 |
| bkuhn | Yes, but are any of the APIs for any of the submodules and documented? | 18:42 |
| bkuhn | For example, if I just wanted to use your accounting module, how would I do it? | 18:42 |
| CarlosRuiz | you don't need to touch the code for that | 18:43 |
| CarlosRuiz | is just to install and use accounting - although I would not recommend that at all | 18:43 |
| bkuhn | CarlosRuiz: how do I import all the data I have? | 18:44 |
| bkuhn | Where's the tutorial on that? | 18:44 |
| bkuhn | And what does it mean to "use accounting"? | 18:44 |
| bkuhn | And why do you recommend that an organization not do its accounting? | 18:44 |
| bkuhn | I'm sorry to be so glib: | 18:44 |
| bkuhn | But I've interacted with ERP communities many times in this project, and for the decades before when trying to find a system that will work easily for small non-profits. | 18:45 |
| bkuhn | The problem is that they want to take over your whole operation. | 18:45 |
| bkuhn | To train all your staff to do things a new way | 18:45 |
| bkuhn | I'm sure that way is great for the places that have taken to it. | 18:45 |
| CarlosRuiz | depending on what you expect - if you want a step-by-step tutorial - then is better to follow the book | 18:45 |
| bkuhn | But NPOs never want to do that; they do it as a last resport. | 18:45 |
| CarlosRuiz | by "use accounting" I mean - when you install the software - of course the accounting is there - is just to create your company and fill GL Journal documents | 18:46 |
| bkuhn | I don't have a company, I have a non-profit org. | 18:46 |
| CarlosRuiz | but "I don't recommend that" because that's the way of accounting software - not ERP | 18:46 |
| CarlosRuiz | in ERP you fill documents like invoices, payments, bank statements | 18:46 |
| CarlosRuiz | and the accounting happens automatically in the background | 18:46 |
| bkuhn | CarlosRuiz: here's an example, what if I want to generate an invoice but not accrue it? | 18:47 |
| bkuhn | Is there a way to tell iDempiere to do that? | 18:47 |
| CarlosRuiz | yes - as simple as use a document type called "ProForma Invoice" | 18:48 |
| bkuhn | So, I've been looking at your website while we've been talking, I can't seem to find any API documentation at all. | 18:50 |
| CarlosRuiz | BTW - the book I mentioned above is this https://www.packtpub.com/application-development/adempiere-34-erp-solutions | 18:50 |
| bkuhn | That book is on ADempiere though, not iDempiere. | 18:50 |
| CarlosRuiz | as I mentioned - we departed from Adempiere - so is 100% applicable in functionality | 18:51 |
| bkuhn | So back to my original question... | 18:51 |
| bkuhn | ... we evaluated Adempiere, how will iDempiere suit the goals of our project better than Adempiere? | 18:51 |
| CarlosRuiz | what I read the evaluation of Adempiere is summarized to a single phrase | 18:52 |
| CarlosRuiz | there is not any analysis below the top comments | 18:53 |
| CarlosRuiz | of course iDempiere (and Adempiere) have Trial Balance, and Bank Reconciliation | 18:53 |
| CarlosRuiz | and all the reports mentioned there | 18:53 |
| bkuhn | It can do fund based accounting? | 18:53 |
| CarlosRuiz | and they can be split by fund | 18:53 |
| bkuhn | Can you point me to the tutorial that explains this? | 18:54 |
| CarlosRuiz | and there is no need for "tracking documentation" because the documents are the origin of the accounting | 18:54 |
| bkuhn | CarlosRuiz: can you show me the API for that? | 18:54 |
| CarlosRuiz | but in iDempiere when analyzing the accounting you can double click and navigate to the origin document | 18:54 |
| bkuhn | "original document"? There is never just one document with regard to a transaction. | 18:54 |
| CarlosRuiz | and iDempiere (and Adempiere) is multi-currency - with the approach of "single functional currency" mentioned in the document | 18:55 |
| CarlosRuiz | and there are draft transactions and configurable workflows to approve them | 18:55 |
| bkuhn | Every ERP system has these, but they are rarely configurable enough and are almost always biased toward for-profit needs, which are different. | 18:56 |
| bkuhn | That's why what's most important for the codebase we build our project around to have accessible API documentation, where is that for iDempiere? | 18:56 |
| CarlosRuiz | to be ERP is a must to have that - many little-accounting systems tend to be named as ERP when they're not | 18:56 |
| bkuhn | Also, do you have any examples of a user in the non-profit space who is using iDempiere? | 18:56 |
| CarlosRuiz | That's a better question for forums - as we don't have a list of companies using the software - but I know there must be thousands of installations | 18:57 |
| CarlosRuiz | and the API's - yes - we have documentation about that - but iDempiere is constructed in a way that you can customize without touching the core | 18:58 |
| CarlosRuiz | so, mostly you just need to write small extensions | 18:58 |
| CarlosRuiz | that's fully documented with tutorials and youtubevideos | 18:58 |
| CarlosRuiz | is a pluggable architecture | 18:59 |
| CarlosRuiz | http://wiki.idempiere.org/en/Category:Plug-In_Development | 18:59 |
| bkuhn | Look, I apologize if I'm being dismissive, but please realize that at some point or other, someone from nearly every major ERP system has come here pitching their system in exactly the way you're describing. | 18:59 |
| CarlosRuiz | so in principle you don't need (and is expected you must not) to touch the core | 18:59 |
| bkuhn | I could spend the rest of my career going to each one and figuring out if it can be adapted for non-profit needs. | 18:59 |
| CarlosRuiz | I'm not trying to "sell" you anything :-D | 18:59 |
| bkuhn | Most people who come by, like you, don't even know of a fiscal sponsor trying to use it. | 19:00 |
| bkuhn | I came to the conclusion long ago that there are just too many of these ERP codebases and all of them are too complex and single-language focused and lack APIs that let you take parts of the codebase and work with it. | 19:00 |
| CarlosRuiz | I came here because I saw the project page - and thought that maybe I can help the project to avoid reinventing the wheel | 19:01 |
| bkuhn | The wheel doesn't exist, that's the problem. | 19:01 |
| CarlosRuiz | but most of what I read is that the conclusion was taken long time ago - biased against ERP and more prone to a simple accounting system | 19:01 |
| CarlosRuiz | the wheel exists :-) | 19:01 |
| bkuhn | People show up and say: "I have a James Bond sports car that converts to an SUV and a boat, it's complicated to drive, read all this stuff, and you'll see. Just spend a few months learning our system..." | 19:01 |
| CarlosRuiz | is called iDempiere | 19:01 |
| bkuhn | And I say: "show me how to take the wheel off so I can just roll the wheel down a hill" | 19:02 |
| bkuhn | And they say, as you are: "Why would anyone want to do that?" | 19:02 |
| bkuhn | If I want to divorce the accounting module away from iDempiere, and just want to do accounting, nothing else, and write to some API, where is it? | 19:03 |
| CarlosRuiz | I can teach you how to take the wheel off in iDempiere - and even construct your own car - but I think is wrong to take that as the starting point | 19:03 |
| bkuhn | So, Conservancy has its data in Ledger-CLI today. So do some other small non-profits. | 19:04 |
| bkuhn | How do I import the data I have to iDempiere and start working? | 19:04 |
| bkuhn | If it takes more than a day, it's just too long. | 19:04 |
| CarlosRuiz | if you can convert the data to a CSV - you just import it and is done | 19:04 |
| bkuhn | The problem I see with most ERP systems, unless you're willing to commit to them for all your operations RIGHT NOW, and invest the steep learning curve RIGHT now, there's little to make use of. | 19:05 |
| CarlosRuiz | BTW - in IDempiere the accounting is pluggable - so you can write a plugin to write your own way | 19:05 |
| bkuhn | Can you show me the API documentation for that? | 19:05 |
| CarlosRuiz | I'm not sure what do you understand about API - but there are some tutorials about how to create custom accounting plugins | 19:07 |
| CarlosRuiz | i.e. http://wiki.idempiere.org/en/Developing_Plug-Ins_-_IDocFactory_(Custom_Accounting) | 19:07 |
| CarlosRuiz | bkuhn, I'm sorry, I didn't want to disturb you in any way - I just wanted to be helpful in case you want to really have the best solution (wheel) actually invented ;-) | 19:10 |
| CarlosRuiz | in case you want to do some trials I can help you in iDempiere forums https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/idempiere | 19:10 |
| CarlosRuiz | I'll be glad if you allow us to | 19:10 |
| bkuhn | CarlosRuiz: I appreciate your offer, I really do. I am sure you find that many users are happy with iDempiere and it works for them. But if you can't show me a non-profit org that's been able to deploy it and meet their reporting needs and other issues with it, and have been through an audit, it's hard for me to be able to determine that it'd be the right starting point. | 19:11 |
| bkuhn | You've said the same things that the Adempiere folks, and OpenERP folks, and the Tryton folks, and every other ERP community advocate that's come by. | 19:11 |
| bkuhn | So, think of it from my perspective: | 19:11 |
| bkuhn | They all say they have the best sports car that if I just spend weeks figure out how to drive it, I'll see it's the best.... | 19:12 |
| bkuhn | ... and I say: "Let me play with the wheels" | 19:12 |
| bkuhn | and they say: "I can't help you play with the wheels, that would take weeks too" | 19:12 |
| bkuhn | Then I ask: "Ok, let me talk to a non-profit org user who has made this work for them" | 19:12 |
| bkuhn | And they say: "I bet there's a non-profit org using this, but I don't know one" | 19:12 |
| bkuhn | I ask around the non-profit orgs I know: | 19:13 |
| bkuhn | they all have either a proprietary solution, or they had to custom-write one b/c nothing available (Open Source and Free Software or proprietary) met their needs. | 19:13 |
| CarlosRuiz | we're talking about a java software with 1.278.602 lines of code - if you expect to learn that in less than one day - then I'm sorry - you need a different software - more like a spreadsheet | 19:13 |
| bkuhn | Yes, of course: I'm sure that the system *does* a lot of great stuff. | 19:14 |
| bkuhn | But it wasn't designed in a way to let people use part of it, it's all or nothing. | 19:14 |
| bkuhn | In my experiences most ERP systems are like that. | 19:14 |
| CarlosRuiz | as I understood from the project - you're wanting to create something for NPO because you don't know about any tool - but you refuse to think about one if is not used by one NPO ? | 19:14 |
| bkuhn | CarlosRuiz: here's the dilemma: the only way to figure out of one of these ERP codebases would work for an NPO is to try it out. (AFAICT) | 19:15 |
| CarlosRuiz | and again - you can use just accounting from iDempiere if that's what you want - just that I would not recommend that - but is feasible - and a valid approach to start getting use | 19:15 |
| bkuhn | I tried OpenERP years ago, I used it for 6 weeks to keep the books. | 19:15 |
| bkuhn | It was a disaster, it couldn't do things in a NPO way. | 19:15 |
| bkuhn | it required massive reconfiguration to do it. | 19:15 |
| bkuhn | But it took 6 weeks of using it find that out, the problems are subtle. | 19:16 |
| bkuhn | So, I could spend the next 2 years, try all these codebases and see if they can work. | 19:16 |
| bkuhn | Find all the flaws, and figure out which is the one that's closest. | 19:16 |
| bkuhn | Or, I can find a non-profit already using one. | 19:17 |
| bkuhn | But the fact that NO non-profit orgs use any of these big ERP Open Source and Free Software codebases is telling. | 19:17 |
| bkuhn | And, you and everyone else wants me to be the first, each of you wants to penetrate that market. | 19:17 |
| bkuhn | I get that: sure. | 19:17 |
| CarlosRuiz | is telling that some free software can be tailored for NPOs | 19:18 |
| bkuhn | But it's clear to me I'm going to have to spend the next year of my life in any of these codbases to get it tehre. | 19:18 |
| CarlosRuiz | but you're wrong about that - I don't want to penetrate that market | 19:18 |
| bkuhn | I agree, probably *any* of these codebases can get there. | 19:18 |
| CarlosRuiz | iDempiere is community open source | 19:18 |
| CarlosRuiz | we're not commercial open source | 19:18 |
| CarlosRuiz | so I don't gain anything if you use it or not | 19:18 |
| bkuhn | Those terms are just too vague; they seem meaningless to me. | 19:18 |
| CarlosRuiz | Bradley, I think you and me have similar goals - we want to preserve open source and make it available to more people | 19:19 |
| bkuhn | Well, I am a Free Software person, not an Open Source one, but I agree with you generally. | 19:20 |
| CarlosRuiz | but as I told you - I came here just to be helpful - sounds like you didn't like my suggestion | 19:20 |
| CarlosRuiz | so - we can simply leave it there - I'm not selling you anything | 19:20 |
| bkuhn | Well, it's not that I don't like it, but you can see it from my point of view? | 19:20 |
| CarlosRuiz | I'm not interested in "NPOs market" | 19:20 |
| bkuhn | Every ERP system out there that's Open Source and Free Software (and there are at least a dozen), have made the same pitch you did. | 19:20 |
| bkuhn | basically : "We can do this, our code can get there, let's collaborate" | 19:21 |
| CarlosRuiz | well - that's not written in the evaluation pages - I didn't see any pitch from Adempiere :-) | 19:21 |
| bkuhn | Every time I look closely at the projects, I'm like: "Hmm, it'd take me months to figure out if this codebase can get us there quickly or not" | 19:21 |
| CarlosRuiz | why do you need to figure out the codebase - do you need to know the linux codebase to use it? | 19:21 |
| bkuhn | Well, an Adempiere person came by IRC at one point, I didn't update the wiki with it, I should have. :) | 19:21 |
| bkuhn | CarlosRuiz: I *have* to assume modifications will be needed. Again, unless you can exhibit an USA-based NPO that's using the codebase successfully. | 19:22 |
| bkuhn | at the very least, I'll have to get the thing packaged for debian officially, get a bunch of custom configurations written, etc. | 19:23 |
| bkuhn | Maybe I don't need to modify core, I can't be sure at this point. | 19:23 |
| CarlosRuiz | and I tell you that iDempiere is pluggable - and modifications can be done without touching the core - that was the main goal after we departed from Adempiere - and we achieved it with OSGi architecture | 19:23 |
| bkuhn | But it's months of technical work for sure, whether it's writing configurations, plugins, modifying core, whatever. | 19:23 |
| bkuhn | The problem I have is that everyone wants me to commit to a marriage before I can date. :) | 19:24 |
| bkuhn | This is why Ledger-CLI intrigued me: I was able to date it for 2 years before I had to commit. (at the time, I was married to GNUCash :) | 19:24 |
| CarlosRuiz | I'm not offering you a marriage - I'm offering help in our iDempiere forums in case you want to do an unbiased analysis | 19:25 |
| bkuhn | I know I'm making some silly analogies, but I'm trying to give it to you from my perspective. | 19:25 |
| CarlosRuiz | but seems like you're already married - so you don't want to date with other potentially bigger solutions ;-) | 19:25 |
| bkuhn | CarlosRuiz: honestly, I think the best help would be if you could find a non-profit manager/accountant who is using iDempiere at their non-profit. | 19:25 |
| bkuhn | That would make the biggest difference. | 19:26 |
| CarlosRuiz | :-) you want to do a NPO software because you say there is no one in the market - but you require one ACTUAL user to consider it :-) | 19:26 |
| CarlosRuiz | is not consistent | 19:26 |
| bkuhn | Well, that's my point: iDempiere was designed for for-profits. | 19:26 |
| bkuhn | so was every other ERP | 19:27 |
| bkuhn | Maybe one of them can be adapted for non-profit needs. | 19:27 |
| bkuhn | Figuring that out is months of investigation. | 19:27 |
| CarlosRuiz | but I can tell you that is so well designed that it can be easily tailored for non-profits | 19:27 |
| bkuhn | We did a simple eval process which really asked the question: "Can we be sure with some confidence this codebase can work?" | 19:27 |
| bkuhn | CarlosRuiz: I just can't trust you on that since you've never run a non-profit or done accounting for a non-profit. | 19:27 |
| CarlosRuiz | and yes - I'm not going to tell you that you can do that in one day - but I can ensure you is less days that reinventing the wheel | 19:28 |
| bkuhn | You've never been through a non-profit audit. | 19:28 |
| bkuhn | And, CarlosRuiz, that's *exactly* what every single ERP community says to us too! :) | 19:28 |
| CarlosRuiz | that's why I said I'm eager to help you - you have the requirements and I can help you to solve them | 19:29 |
| bkuhn | OpenERP, Tryton, Adempiere, ERPNext, etc. | 19:29 |
| bkuhn | they offered the same help. | 19:29 |
| bkuhn | So, what do I do? | 19:29 |
| bkuhn | Flip coins? | 19:29 |
| bkuhn | I guess I could. | 19:29 |
| bkuhn | But, the thing I saw when looking at these codebases. | 19:29 |
| bkuhn | Is that they are self-contained. | 19:29 |
| bkuhn | They don't have clear multi-language API walls | 19:29 |
| bkuhn | So, my thought is, why not *do that*. | 19:29 |
| CarlosRuiz | ah - then there is where you asked me about the difference between Adempiere and iDempiere | 19:30 |
| bkuhn | If my approach is sound, in a year or two, I'll be able to contribute a patch to iDempiere that can use our API for accounting storage and manipulation. | 19:30 |
| CarlosRuiz | and what you just said can be true for Adempiere | 19:30 |
| CarlosRuiz | self-contained - hard to extend | 19:30 |
| CarlosRuiz | but iDempiere followed the pluggable approach | 19:30 |
| CarlosRuiz | to make it easy to extend - our goal is you don't need to touch the core | 19:31 |
| bkuhn | So, right, and you said that, and that got me interested: | 19:31 |
| bkuhn | b/c if it's pluggable, there should be an easy to use API that lets me just mess with accounting data, right? | 19:31 |
| bkuhn | Is it a RESTful API? | 19:31 |
| bkuhn | can I call it from many programming langauges? | 19:32 |
| CarlosRuiz | easy to create that if that's what you need | 19:33 |
| bkuhn | Ok, so now we're getting somewhere, can you point me in the basic direction of that? | 19:33 |
| bkuhn | (I realize no one has probably ever tried to do that with iDempiere, so I don't expect it to be spelled out yet, but I promise I'll spend 3 hours to take a look later at that idea if you can give me the basics to get started.) | 19:34 |
| CarlosRuiz | no way you'll get it in 3 hours | 19:35 |
| CarlosRuiz | Bradley - nice to meet you - as I said I'll be eager to help you discover the power of iDempiere if you want - in our forums https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/idempiere | 19:47 |
| CarlosRuiz | bkuhn, it was nice to see your point of view, c u then | 19:47 |
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| *** bkuhn is now known as bkuhnIdle | 20:19 | |
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