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| joar | good morning | 15:15 |
|---|---|---|
| joar | my USB drivers rejected me when I booted up, and my irssi machine seems to have rebooted. | 15:17 |
| joar | bkuhn: ping, tackling theming. | 15:25 |
| bkuhn | joar: ok great.... meanwhile, if you want something else to do, you can also poke around at various accounting Free Software packages and start making wiki pages for each | 15:26 |
| joar | all right | 15:26 |
| joar | bkuhn: any opinions on theming? | 15:27 |
| bkuhn | I'll send you the list of names I've been keeping later today... but I started from the wikipedia entry on the topic. | 15:27 |
| joar | color scheme? serif or sans? | 15:27 |
| bkuhn | joar: nope. use your judgment, make it 'look nice' to people who care about such tings. | 15:27 |
| bkuhn | things | 15:27 |
| joar | :) | 15:27 |
| bkuhn | I'm bad on such things myself | 15:27 |
| joar | bkuhn: Okay, I have something at npoacct.sfconservancy.org now | 17:17 |
| * bkuhn looks. | 17:18 | |
| joar | it's based on bootstrap 3 | 17:19 |
| bkuhn | That looks pretty good | 17:19 |
| bkuhn | It's good for me. | 17:19 |
| bkuhn | OTOH | 17:19 |
| joar | for now, I hope the content is going to look good. | 17:19 |
| bkuhn | I don't care how things look. | 17:19 |
| bkuhn | :) | 17:19 |
| joar | the forms are separate templates with lots of mor switches and quirks | 17:19 |
| joar | :) | 17:19 |
| joar | bkuhn: I'm guessing the list you are going after is this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Free_accounting_software | 17:22 |
| bkuhn | Yes, that's a list I started from. | 17:22 |
| bkuhn | I was saving another list. | 17:22 |
| bkuhn | I'm looking for it now. | 17:22 |
| bkuhn | joar: for the Wiki, what git repository should I clone now, given the gitorious bug | 17:35 |
| joar | bkuhn: wiki@oak.sfconservancy.org:npo-acct.git | 17:36 |
| bkuhn | joar: do I need to add my ssh key somewhere? | 17:36 |
| joar | yeah, to ~wiki/.ssh/authorized_keys | 17:37 |
| joar | bkuhn: ^^ | 17:37 |
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| bkuhn | Thanks. | 17:49 |
| bkuhn | our work around right now is probably pushing to gitorious by hand I assume. | 17:50 |
| bkuhn | joar: how hard would it be to allow anonymous clones of wiki@oak.sfconservancy.org:npo-acct.git ? | 17:52 |
| * bkuhn just read joar's comment about not pushing to the gitorious tree | 18:02 | |
| bkuhn | joar: did I just screw things up by pushing there? | 18:02 |
| joar | bkuhn: maybe :) | 18:02 |
| joar | I don't think so, as long as they don't diverge | 18:03 |
| bkuhn | I just added it as a secondary remote and pushed everything to it. | 18:03 |
| bkuhn | right | 18:03 |
| joar | so if you push the same tree to oak it shold be fine | 18:03 |
| joar | bkuhn: do you have any requirements for the system written down? | 18:07 |
| bkuhn | joar: not yet. | 18:07 |
| bkuhn | I need to start writing use cases | 18:08 |
| joar | bkuhn: it would be great to have them in the wiki, under UseCases or similar | 18:08 |
| bkuhn | That was my plan | 18:08 |
| joar | great | 18:08 |
| joar | I added, http://npoacct.sfconservancy.org/existing-projects/, maywe I should change that to CamelCase, I'm too used to hyphen-at-ing | 18:09 |
| bkuhn | ok | 18:22 |
| joar | pushed the change | 18:27 |
| joar | bkuhn: I'm just adding all the projects from the wikipedia category listing to ExistingProjects. | 18:43 |
| bkuhn | Ok, that's fine. | 18:44 |
| bkuhn | joar: feel free to begin looking at some of them and taking some notes if you feel like it... | 18:44 |
| joar | bkuhn: sure | 18:44 |
| bkuhn | ... if you find something that makes it clear that we can't use a particular project, then that's enough | 18:44 |
| bkuhn | I realize that use cases are mostly on me. | 18:44 |
| bkuhn | I'm trying to schedule a day or two when I can focus just on that. | 18:45 |
| bkuhn | And I realize that's going to delay your work. | 18:45 |
| joar | Good | 18:45 |
| joar | yes :) | 18:45 |
| bkuhn | But, see what you can get done without that.... | 18:45 |
| joar | I will! | 18:45 |
| bkuhn | .... eliminating a few based on things like, say, poor design and such, would be fine. | 18:45 |
| bkuhn | If you think a project has a codebase that looks unusable for any reason, just write that in the Wiki | 18:45 |
| joar | Yes, I will note any things that I see ar favorable/unfavorable, I can't get in too deep before I have the use cases. | 18:46 |
| bkuhn | I understand. | 18:46 |
| joar | s/\sar/ as/ | 18:46 |
| joar | bkuhn: If you have any projects in addition to those listed on http://npoacct.sfconservancy.org/ExistingProjects/, feel free to send them to me. | 18:50 |
| bkuhn | joar: I do. I'm a bit busy on a bunch of things. | 18:52 |
| bkuhn | ... but will add them myself to the wiki when I have a chance. | 18:52 |
| accounting-bot | bkuhn: Error: ".." is not a valid command. | 18:52 |
| joar | good! | 18:52 |
| joar | maybe I should change the prefix char for accounting-bot to something not commonly used at the beginning of a line | 18:53 |
| bkuhn | ah, ok. :) | 20:07 |
| bkuhn | joar: So, another thing you could work on: | 20:08 |
| bkuhn | You're ultimately going to need to become an expert on double entry accounting. | 20:08 |
| bkuhn | So you should start learning about that too. | 20:09 |
| joar | bkuhn: Yep | 20:09 |
| joar | bkuhn: do you have any good resources on that? | 20:09 |
| bkuhn | joar: I'm mostly self taught on that front. I read lots of websites. | 20:09 |
| bkuhn | However, there is a book that I should probably send you. | 20:09 |
| joar | All right, I'll go via ledger docs and wikipedia as a start | 20:09 |
| bkuhn | yeah, wikipedia's entries aren't bad. | 20:10 |
| bkuhn | Ledger docs are somewhat problematic. | 20:10 |
| bkuhn | Only because ledger-cli does things in a way sometimes that accountants might cringe at. | 20:10 |
| joar | I think I can recall them being hard to understand | 20:10 |
| bkuhn | Yeah, they aren't great, it's true. | 20:10 |
| joar | I've used ledger before on trial-and-error basis | 20:10 |
| bkuhn | Despite the fact that they try to explain double-entry, the ledger-cli sort-of assume you already know what double-entry accounting is. | 20:11 |
| joar | and then sanity checking it by myself | 20:11 |
| bkuhn | joar: So do it this way: start reading what you can find. Feel free to just ask me questions. It's somewhat the "clueless leading the clueless" because I'm self taught on this stuff, but I also "known enough to know what I don't know", rather than "knowing enough to just be dangerous" | 20:12 |
| joar | :) | 20:16 |
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| joar | bkuhnIdle: traditional or accounting equation approach or both? | 20:42 |
| joar | I'm guessing the AEA, since it seems more sane. | 20:44 |
| joar | AEA is also what I recognize from ledger | 20:48 |
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| bkuhn | joar: sorry, I had a bunch of meetings. | 23:03 |
| joar | bkuhn: it's fine, GnuCash is my favourite project so far, I think. | 23:06 |
| joar | iirc you had been using that before. | 23:07 |
| bkuhn | To answer your question: I am not sure which approach we use. :) | 23:07 |
| bkuhn | Oh, yeah, we do this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accounting_equation | 23:07 |
| bkuhn | joar: GnuCash has a good GUI | 23:08 |
| bkuhn | Ideally, if we could hook Ledger-CLI such that GnuCash could be used as its GUI, it'd be perfect. | 23:08 |
| joar | the GNU Enterprise project homepage has been unreachable for the last two days at least. | 23:08 |
| bkuhn | GnuCash isn't perfectly Double Entry | 23:08 |
| bkuhn | joar: I don't think GNU Enterprise is active, actually. | 23:09 |
| bkuhn | GnuCash is really designed to be a Quicken replacement. | 23:09 |
| bkuhn | Which isn't purely double entry | 23:09 |
| bkuhn | But, it's "so close" that most don't notice. | 23:09 |
| bkuhn | GNOME Foundation uses GNUCash for is books. | 23:09 |
| bkuhn | *its | 23:09 |
| joar | bkuhn: have you seen this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_accounting_software | 23:12 |
| bkuhn | Yes, in fact, that's the page I was actually thinking of when you showed me http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Free_accounting_software | 23:13 |
| joar | Oh, right | 23:13 |
| bkuhn | joar: also, be sure to read up on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fund_accounting | 23:15 |
| bkuhn | That's what Conservancy does -- each of our Member projects. | 23:16 |
| bkuhn | ... is a fund. | 23:17 |
| accounting-bot | bkuhn: Error: ".." is not a valid command. | 23:17 |
| bkuhn | (oops, forgot accounting bot doesn't like my tendency to start lines with .. :) | 23:17 |
| joar | .. I also do that | 23:17 |
| accounting-bot | joar: Error: "." is not a valid command. | 23:17 |
| joar | .. fixed! | 23:23 |
| joar | !flush | 23:23 |
| accounting-bot | joar: The operation succeeded. | 23:23 |
| joar | good | 23:23 |
| bkuhn | joar: oh, and it's probably worth reading Conservancy's Form 990s and (more to the point) our audit reports | 23:25 |
| bkuhn | These are all on http://sfconservancy.org/about/filings/ | 23:25 |
| bkuhn | http://sfconservancy.org/docs/conservancy_independent-audit_fy-2011.pdf in particular | 23:25 |
| bkuhn | This shows the types of "final reports" that we produce each year. Those are formatted as our auditors do them, and we produce a few others that are slightly more detailed, but it gives you a sense. | 23:26 |
| bkuhn | (basically,we produce reports like that, give them to our auditors with supporting details, and they review them and make sure there are no errors) | 23:26 |
| bkuhn | joar: I realize it's close to bed time for you, no need to look at all this tonight. Feel free to ask me tomorrow morning for more details. | 23:28 |
| bkuhn | (At least, it would be close to bedtime for me if I were in your time zone. :) | 23:28 |
| bkuhn | actually, if I were in your time zone, I'd be asleep already. :) | 23:28 |
| joar | :) | 23:29 |
| joar | the independent audio FY2011 looks pretty straightforward. | 23:37 |
| joar | I believe I have a rought model of the funds and accounts, bar the restrictions. | 23:38 |
| joar | I'm not sure who sets those restrictions, is it the donor? | 23:38 |
| joar | bkuhn: it seems like it is the donor | 23:38 |
| bkuhn | joar: no, donor restricted funds is something different. | 23:54 |
| bkuhn | "temporarily restricted assets" are donations that the org has earmarked based on an agreement with the project (at least in our case) | 23:54 |
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