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| joar | hello bkuhn! | 14:25 |
|---|---|---|
| bkuhn | greetings! | 14:25 |
| bkuhn | We should get started. | 14:25 |
| bkuhn | I need to write more UseCases. | 14:25 |
| bkuhn | I think that's the right place | 14:25 |
| bkuhn | ... for me to get started. | 14:25 |
| joar | I was just going to post my contract to you | 14:25 |
| joar | it'll take 15 minutes | 14:26 |
| bkuhn | ok. | 14:27 |
| joar | it took a little longer than expected. I'm back now | 15:10 |
| joar | 11 | 15:10 |
| joar | 11 | 15:10 |
| bkuhn | No problem. | 15:20 |
| joar | bkuhn: all right, you will continue with usecases as far as i understand? | 15:29 |
| bkuhn | Yeah, let me spend an hour or two writing them up. | 15:30 |
| joar | ack | 15:31 |
| bkuhn | joar: if you feel like looking at what I'm adding in real time and updating the evaluation pages based on the use cases I'm writing, that would be good... | 15:31 |
| bkuhn | ... but perhaps that's too 'real time' and confusing. :) | 15:31 |
| joar | :) | 15:31 |
| joar | let's try | 15:31 |
| bkuhn | Ok, I just added two new use casees. | 15:33 |
| joar | currently questioning OpenPetra people re: FundAccounting and technical | 15:41 |
| bkuhn | I think for a lot of these, though, we're going to have to look at the code ourselves. | 15:44 |
| joar | Yes | 15:54 |
| joar | the OpenPetra people have been very helpful | 15:54 |
| joar | As have the Tryton folks, pokoli in particular | 15:54 |
| pokoli | joar: ping me when needed :) | 15:56 |
| joar | pokoli: :) | 15:56 |
| bkuhn | joar: Something I'd really like to do is attempt to install each of these packages and try out some things with them. | 16:19 |
| joar | bkuhn: Yes, I think that will be a later step | 16:20 |
| bkuhn | I don't want to muddy oak (the server) with install attempts, though.... | 16:20 |
| bkuhn | .... should I spin up a VM for this purpose? | 16:20 |
| joar | I think a VM would be the cleanest | 16:20 |
| bkuhn | yeah, ok, I'll spin one up in a few. I'm use-case-writing-sprinting right now. :) | 16:22 |
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| joar | I'm spinning up an lxc container to try out openpetra | 17:20 |
| bkuhn | jelmer: welcome! | 17:21 |
| bkuhn | joar: oh, ok, would a new VM be easier? I've not spun one up yet. | 17:21 |
| bkuhn | but can do so now. | 17:21 |
| joar | bkuhn: on gandi? | 17:21 |
| bkuhn | joar: yes, that's probably easiest. Rackspace is also an option (recently they donated FaiP services to Conservancy too, like Gandi) | 17:22 |
| joar | I'm using docker locally, since I'll need X | 17:22 |
| joar | so I'm happy with what I've got at the moment :) | 17:22 |
| bkuhn | oh, good point, I forgot that some of these are X-based applications. | 17:22 |
| bkuhn | joar: it'd be great if I could try these out too | 17:23 |
| joar | my only concern is that I'm running out of disk space | 17:23 |
| joar | bkuhn: absolutely, do you know how lxc-docker works? | 17:23 |
| joar | I could publish a small guide to getting it up and running | 17:23 |
| bkuhn | No, I generally use qemu-based VMs | 17:23 |
| bkuhn | ... but if you're making these, then I'll learn. | 17:23 |
| bkuhn | ... how to use lxc-doker | 17:24 |
| bkuhn | docker | 17:24 |
| bkuhn | All things being equal, I'd probably just install these in a chroot | 17:26 |
| jelmer | bkuhn: Thanks! | 17:27 |
| jelmer | hi joar, bkuhn | 17:28 |
| bkuhn | joar: Jelmer is a contributor the Samba project, which is a Conservancy member. I bet Jelmer has useful thoughts on the second part of this use case that I just wrote: http://npoacct.sfconservancy.org/UseCases/ReimbursementRequest/ | 17:28 |
| bkuhn | :) | 17:29 |
| joar | :) | 17:30 |
| joar | is a transaction to Accounts Payable registered as credit or debit? | 17:56 |
| bkuhn | So, I'm bad at this stuff... in the sense that I get confused what accounts call a credit or a debit. | 18:05 |
| bkuhn | What I can say is that Accounts Payable usually starts as negative, and then has a positive transaction later. | 18:05 |
| bkuhn | I guess that means it's a debit, then a credit. | 18:06 |
| bkuhn | but I've sometimes had situations where accountants call something positive (numerically) a debit... so I avoid those terms ultimately because I get confused. | 18:06 |
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| joar | ok, openpetra source downloaded, going to try it out now | 18:29 |
| joar | I was actually thinking of vagrant all the time I said docker | 19:02 |
| bkuhn | joar: is it possible for you to ship me the VMs or equivalents that have the running systems in them? | 19:09 |
| joar | maybe | 19:10 |
| joar | do you run 64bit? | 19:10 |
| joar | bkuhn: which distro do you run? | 19:11 |
| bkuhn | Debian | 19:11 |
| bkuhn | And yes, I'm 64 bit | 19:11 |
| joar | good | 19:11 |
| bkuhn | :) | 19:11 |
| bkuhn | We are compatible. | 19:11 |
| joar | I'm on Ubuntu because I like their release schedule, but I think I can make this work. | 19:12 |
| joar | we're mostly compatible at least :) | 19:12 |
| joar | I'm creating an lxc instance now | 19:13 |
| joar | we'll see if I can ship that, otherwise I should be able to create a virtualbox file | 19:13 |
| joar | or qemu/kvm | 19:13 |
| bkuhn | I've used qemu most. I did a few things with kvm | 19:18 |
| bkuhn | I've never used VirtualBox. | 19:18 |
| bkuhn | joar: Meanwhile, when you have a chance, could you read http://npoacct.sfconservancy.org/UseCases/MultiCurrency/ and let me know your thoughts. | 19:19 |
| joar | vagrant abstracts away the underlying virtualization technique | 19:19 |
| bkuhn | cute. | 19:22 |
| jelmer | bkuhn: Apparently the experience with OpenERP scared my friends enough that they didn't try Tryton. | 19:29 |
| bkuhn | jelmer: Well, I know briefly about the history and I know that the Tryton developers had scary experiences with OpenERP such that it led them to fork. (pokoli is a Tryton developer, BTW.) | 19:29 |
| bkuhn | jelmer: did your friends believe the problems with OpenERP would "spill" into Tryton in some way? | 19:30 |
| bkuhn | or just that they gave up. | 19:30 |
| bkuhn | ? | 19:30 |
| bkuhn | (FWIW, I evaluated OpenERP in 2008 before choosing the Ledger-CLI-based system I ended up putting together for Conservancy. Tryton fork was literally just getting started at the time) | 19:30 |
| jelmer | The one that gave up went to something homebuilt and specific to their org. | 19:30 |
| jelmer | This was also a couple of years ago. | 19:31 |
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| joar | suspended my efforts with vagrant | 21:27 |
| joar | I almost got it up and running | 21:27 |
| bkuhn | joar: ok, is that definitely the best way to try these things out? | 21:27 |
| joar | and then I found a bug that wouldn't let me through, and the #openpetra devs are away at the moment | 21:28 |
| bkuhn | (I mean, would chroots work?) | 21:28 |
| joar | the bug wasn't in vagrant but in the application | 21:28 |
| joar | another idea would be to try the standalone exe through wine or mono | 21:28 |
| joar | standalone intaller through wine asked for me to install .NET 4.0 | 21:31 |
| joar | I'm pretty exhausted by this | 21:31 |
| joar | and thank you bkuhn for writing up all the use cases | 21:33 |
| bkuhn | Well, I haven't "WRITE ALL THE USE CASES" yet (to use a meme) | 21:34 |
| bkuhn | I have a few more to write. | 21:34 |
| joar | :) | 21:34 |
| bkuhn | But, I've written the major ones, I think. | 21:34 |
| bkuhn | I want to write the public support test in particular. | 21:34 |
| joar | I meant that as in "all of those use cases you have written today" | 21:35 |
| bkuhn | Yeah, I figured. :) | 21:35 |
| joar | :) | 21:35 |
| bkuhn | ... because I think the public support test exemplifies why we need what I called the ReadAPI | 21:35 |
| joar | I'm looking at the currency use case now | 21:35 |
| bkuhn | In other words, there are complex, specialized reporting scenarios that come up that the original software developers can't anticipate. | 21:35 |
| bkuhn | joar: Yes, I'm curious if you grok that multicurrency one... I had trouble explaining what I was thinking there. | 21:36 |
| joar | I really wish Markdown would support footnotes | 21:37 |
| bkuhn | joar: (me too) | 21:37 |
| bkuhn | joar: meanwhile, Does OpenPetra offer a VM to try or anything like that? | 21:37 |
| joar | I don't think so | 21:37 |
| joar | web searches return nothing | 21:38 |
| bkuhn | hrm | 21:38 |
| bkuhn | joar: what's the clone URL for OpenPetra? | 21:39 |
| joar | bzr branch lp:openpetraorg | 21:39 |
| * bkuhn branches | 21:43 | |
| joar | it may take up to 40 minutes | 21:44 |
| joar | bkuhn: yeah, I think I grok the currency example | 21:47 |
| bkuhn | (re: branch of openpetra ... Probably more time for me, I have very little bandwidth)_ | 21:48 |
| bkuhn | why is it so big? | 21:48 |
| joar | historical reasons I believe | 21:48 |
| bkuhn | joar: (re currency use case) that's good. | 21:48 |
| joar | for me with 1.7MB download throughput it took about 40 minutes | 21:48 |
| * joar brbb | 21:49 | |
| joar | back | 22:02 |
| joar | bkuhn: does npo-ledger-cli support all the reports described in the GeneratingReports use case? | 22:04 |
| bkuhn | joar: Almost all of them, I think. | 22:04 |
| bkuhn | I'm going to go through over the next day or so and update the npo-ledger-cli documentation and evaluate it against our use cases | 22:05 |
| joar | I was just on that task, but I think it might be better if you do that | 22:05 |
| joar | since you know it best, and will know any eventual differences between conservancy's current system and npo-ledger-cli | 22:06 |
| bkuhn | Yeah, I should probably do it. | 22:13 |
| bkuhn | Feel free to look at any of the other systems and evaluate them against any use cases written so far. | 22:13 |
| bkuhn | joar: Can you think of a reason why UseCases/ReadAPI doesn't work? Not CamelCaseyEnough? | 22:20 |
| bkuhn | nm, fixed it. | 22:22 |
| joar | right | 22:22 |
| paroneayea | under_hyphenated-mixedCamelCase | 22:31 |
| joar | hyphen-ated | 22:31 |
| paroneayea | hyphen-rated | 22:31 |
| joar | hungarianNotation-hyphenatedMixed.CamelCase | 22:33 |
| joar | { | 22:33 |
| joar | if (shorthand) notation | 22:33 |
| joar | else { | 22:34 |
| joar | maybe} | 22:34 |
| joar | } | 22:34 |
| paroneayea | yikes :) | 22:35 |
| joar | :) | 22:35 |
| joar | I'm going to sign out for the day | 22:59 |
| joar | I sent an email to the ofbiz ML | 22:59 |
| joar | asking for help with assessments, since it's really hard to find information about ofbiz | 23:00 |
| joar | bkuhn: ^^ | 23:01 |
| * bkuhn reads | 23:12 | |
| bkuhn | joar: you'll probably see this tomorrow, but frankly, if it's hard to find information on a project, it's a good indication that we shouldn't bother with it. Just document what we tried and move on. | 23:13 |
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