Thursday, 2013-11-14

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pokolijelmer: Multicurrency is working perfectly on Tryton :)10:54
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bkuhnjoar: how's the OpenPetra thing going?16:55
joarbkuhn: troublesome setup16:55
joarI'm jumping to tryton while I wait for a new bzr branch lp:openpetraorg16:56
bkuhnjoar: good idea.16:56
joarok, got a tryton image17:08
joarwith just the client17:08
joarbkuhn: I can check the disk image into the npo-acct repo17:08
joartryton has a demo server set up17:09
bkuhnjoar: that's probably too big a thing to put into revision control17:10
joarmight be17:10
joarbut we don't have anywhere else at the moment17:10
bkuhndo you want to just rsync it up to oak?  Is there enough disk space there?17:10
joarthat might be better17:10
bkuhneh, it's only 1.8GB free17:11
joarI should set up a new virtual host for plain file storage17:11
bkuhnthe options are17:11
joarrackspace cloudfiles17:11
bkuhn(a) attach another disk to oak or (b) make another VM to hold stuff17:11
joarThey have CDN-hosted public/private file storage, and you mentioned you had some credits with them17:12
bkuhnis rackspace cloudfiles easier than attaching a disk to oak?17:12
joarTheir storage price is pretty good, I use it with gobblin.se17:12
bkuhn(I'm looking to see if those credits include the file storage thing)17:12
joarRackspace CloudFiles has a web UI for uploading17:12
joarand also APIs17:12
joarbut we don't need any intergration at the moment, we just need the file storage, right?17:13
joar(for, I host all the media on Rackspace CloudFiles)17:13
bkuhnI looked at it.17:15
bkuhnIt's not clear it'll be free17:16
bkuhnso the easiest is create a big disk and attach it to oak, I think.17:16
* bkuhn does that now.17:17
joarlet's do that in the meantime17:17
joarthe image is 514M, that is without xorg17:17
joarusing x11-forwarding instead17:17
joarset up automatically by vagrant17:17
joardoes oak receive *
joardoes not seem like it17:21
joarI can use the host in the meantime17:21
joarinstead of my original thought: files.npoacct.sfconservancy.org17:21
bkuhnjoar: ok, put it in
bkuhnyou can just use rsync17:25
joar set up to serve the files in /srv/npoacctvms/vms/17:26
bkuhnjoar: not necessary  yet...17:26
bkuhn... given that it's just you and me.17:26
bkuhnif someone else here wants the VM, we can provide. :)17:26
bkuhnbut I don't think we're getting tons of people lined up to help us on the eval, despite my invitation. :)17:27
bkuhnjoar: let me know when you're started copying, I'll pull it down while you are pushing it up.17:28
bkuhnjoar: I made a group on that box called vmshare, which you're account is in17:28
joarbkuhn: copying17:31
bkuhnI don't see the temp file appearing...17:32
bkuhnyou using rsync -HavzP ?17:32
bkuhnI was going to start pulling it in pieces17:32
bkuhnno files yet in $ ls -lrta /srv/npoacctvms/vms/17:33
bkuhnusually rsync makes a temporary file17:33
bkuhn(I do this a lot to bring files from machine to machine)17:34
joar➜  tryton-vagrant  rsync -HavzP                         belz17:34
joarthat's the command17:34
bkuhnthat looks right17:34
joarit's using ssh as the transport17:34
joarmaybe you've been using the rsync server17:34
bkuhnno, I do this with ssh all the time17:34
bkuhnhow much data has been copied?17:35
joar     9830400   1%   75.34kB/s    1:56:4317:35
bkuhnthat's quite odd17:35
bkuhnI can't figure out where it's putting the data17:35
bkuhnThis is truly confusing17:36
bkuhnI'm convinced it's not copying anything.17:37
bkuhnas diskspace on npoacct is not changing17:37
joarI asked pokorra in #openpetra to provide a set of instructions to get openpetra set up entirely on linux.17:37
bkuhnjoar: I'm really troubled at how hard all these packages are to install.17:38
bkuhnI tried installing LedgerSMB last night; it's harder than I remember it, notwithstanding that there's a Debian package17:38
bkuhnit just "didn't work"... it isn't seeing the database, and I can't figure out why.17:38
joarthat's weird17:38
joarboth disk and database17:39
bkuhnwell, I think somewhere, it's telling it a different name of the database17:39
bkuhnjoar: I keep running df on oak, and there's not more disk spcae getting used17:39
joarI'm doing the same thing17:39
bkuhnthe disk usage has been the same number of blocks since you started17:39
bkuhnjoar: try something, hit ctrl-c on your rsync.  Since you did -P, it should put a partial file there17:40
joarrsync error: unexplained error (code 255) at rsync.c(549) [sender=3.0.9]17:40
bkuhnok, something weird is going on17:40
bkuhntry copying some small text file with the same command17:41
bkuhnI just did: rsync -HavzP test and it worked  as I would have expected17:41
joarrsync: mkstemp "/srv/npoacctvms/vms/.Vagrantfile.Lk9ZVq" failed: Permission denied (13)17:42
joardid you set the permissions on that folder?17:42
joarI'm using shared SSH connections17:42
joarI might have to reconnect17:42
bkuhnjoar: you may need to restart them.17:42
bkuhnI added you to a group17:42
bkuhnjoar: meanwhile, another thing you can work on: can you build a "test form" for a checklits for each project against the use cases.17:46
bkuhnI am not sure what this should look like.17:47
bkuhnI guess it should be a bullet list of items with links to the test case.  Each test case should  have a short name of some sort...17:47
bkuhn ... is there a way to do the equivalent of <a id="XXX"> in ikiwiki?17:47
joarI noticed that17:51
bkuhnNoticed what?17:51
joar<a id>17:51
bkuhnNot sure what you mean ... noticed that we need it, or?17:52
bkuhn(meanwhile, has your rsync of the tryton VM restarted, still not seeing a temp file...)17:52
joari was on the phone, restarting17:52
joarbkuhn: that it's lacking17:54
bkuhnThat's too bad.17:54
bkuhnIs this a known bug in ikiwiki?17:54
bkuhn seems to indicate they're supported17:57
bkuhnok, you just hard code <a id="test">   I think that's the way to do it.17:59
bkuhnjoar: so here's a thing to do, go through all the use cases we have so far, and find discrete ones  we can evaluate projects for.....18:00
bkuhn... and put an <a id="SOMETHING"> for each one, adding each time to some EvaluationTemplate bullet list.18:01
bkuhn"separate ones that we can independently evaluate each package for"18:01
bkuhnNote that I'm still adding UseCases here and there.18:02
joarSo create a template for the UseCase evaluations?18:02
joarand then include <a id> in that template to each separate UseCase section?18:02
joarbkuhn: have I understood you correctly?18:04
bkuhnI think so.18:04
bkuhnBasically, the template should probably have a bullet list of named usecase:18:04
bkuhn* [double entry accounting|DoubleEntry#doubleentry]18:05
bkuhn(although in that case, I guess an <a id isn't necessary)18:05
bkuhnA good example is ReimbursementRequest, which has many different use-cases related to reimbursements.18:05
joardoes this look good?
joaror do you just want a summary-type list?18:06
joar(that's a draft)18:06
joarI'm not sure I understand you correctly, how should this template be used?18:07
* bkuhn looks18:14
bkuhnso, my thought is this:18:15
bkuhnjoar: for each project we evaluate, we should have a list of items18:15
bkuhn... that we're evaluating it for.18:16
bkuhnlet me modify your template18:16
bkuhnstandby on this.18:16
bkuhnjoar: now has what I was talking about.18:45
joarI think I see what you mean18:45
bkuhnMeanwhile, I can't get this to work:18:45
bkuhna.idOnly {18:45
bkuhntext-decoration: none !important;18:45
bkuhnin local.css18:45
* bkuhn is not good with CSS18:46
joardo you have problems with text-decoration?18:46
bkuhnthe text-decoration is just confusing if it's not really a link, isn't it?18:46
joarah, text-decoration only concerns the underline and strikethrough18:47
joaryou should change it to <a id="foo"></a>Generating reports18:47
joarso, just create an empty <a> tag before the anchor target18:48
bkuhnis that really the "right way" to do it?18:48
joarit's the generally accepted way18:48
bkuhnoh, ok.18:48
joarit's the way sphinx does it, for example18:48
joarI think wikipedia does the same18:48
joarwikipedia does it differently18:50
joarbut I've seen it many places18:50
joarusually documentation18:50
joarbkuhn: do you want me to fix it?18:51
bkuhnjoar: I just did, I think.18:51
joarI think I'm going to go through the list at ExistingProjects and mark some of those for exclusion from the evaluation.19:06
bkuhnjoar: because they are just so far from "being there"?19:07
bkuhnThat makes sense.19:07
joarwe have a lot of stuff in that list19:08
joarand it's just distracting to me19:08
joarbkuhn: I'm going to eliminate frontaccounting based on their codebase, see, "Negative"19:15
* bkuhn thinks about it.19:18
bkuhnjoar: what's fontaccounting's clone URL>19:18
bkuhn(It drives me nuts how hard it is to find this on these project's web pages!)19:19
joarI'm looking for it19:19
bkuhnI finally found it:19:19
bkuhn links to here:
joarI am using the list on ExistingProjects as if it was my TODO list. I think this is kind of the right approach, but I'm not sure.19:20
joarThe downside with that is that we make the project pages floating even though I've been doing some research on them.19:21
bkuhnjoar: I think you're right, and I think you're also right now is the time to start knocking some of the low hanging fruit off the list.19:21
bkuhnjoar: your notes mention FrontAccounting is easy to get up and running?19:22
bkuhnmaybe we should try to run it quickly just to give a quick look?19:22
joarit's seemingly easy.19:22
joarI'll start a vm19:22
bkuhnwhat specifically on the oholoh link did you want to call my attention to?19:28
bkuhnjoar: btw, are you following the mailing list discussion>?19:30
joarit has a small development team19:30
joarthe RDF tip is intriguing19:30
bkuhnI'm replying to that.19:35
bkuhnI just posted a reply19:39
bkuhnjoar: so, was frontaccounting an easy install?19:47
joarbkuhn: not done yet :)19:47
bkuhnwell, that may mean it's hard... keep notes.19:47
bkuhnI mean, if it's really hard to install, I'm not opposed to eliminating based on what your code review saw.19:47
bkuhnI guess I fear we're missing something.19:48
joarMe too19:48
bkuhnI'm truly baffled by why people keep reinventing this wheel so poorly....19:48
bkuhn ..... is the wheel that hard to make?19:48
bkuhnmaybe it is.19:48
joarbut it'd be overwhelming if we went digging for diamonds in all of these19:48
joarIt's harder to write reusable code than working code19:49
joarand these are open-source projects competing with a lot of other19:49
bkuhn(You read the post I just made to the list... or we serendipitously just came up with the same analogy :)19:49
joarI think it's a haunted area for open source software development19:49
joarthe diamonds? yes19:49
joarI read your email19:50
bkuhnYeah, Don Lobo of the CiviCRM project was really urging me to *not* bother too much with evaluating codebases.19:50
joarHere be dragons19:50
bkuhnHe pointed out that when Civi started, there were some codebases out there that weren't all that usable.19:50
bkuhnand he didn't want to waste time.19:50
bkuhnyeah, I know.19:50
bkuhnbut look:19:50
bkuhnlet's do it this way:19:50
bkuhnI've got a nice set of use cases that are nearly feature complete for what Conservancy has now.19:51
bkuhnI'll finish that, and I'll finish the eval template.19:51
bkuhnLet's install each of these things and at least quickly mark off things.19:51
bkuhnWe can also email the maintainers and let them know, and give them  a chance to join the list and dispute.19:51
bkuhnMaybe that's the right way to do it.19:51
bkuhnAnd let's set ourselves a deadline.19:52
bkuhnLets say, by the end of next week, 2013-11-22, we *have* to know what our plan for code reuse is.19:52
bkuhnWe have 23 projects on the list right now.19:53
bkuhnthat means, we have to eliminate, on average, two projects each day19:53
bkuhnmaybe 319:54
bkuhn(since it's nearing the end of your day)19:54
bkuhnLet's try to get frontaccounting eliminated today at least.19:54
joaror not eliminated :)19:54
joarbut we have somethings19:54
joarbut yes, that's a good plan.19:54
joar.. some projects that could be eliminated.19:55
joarI'm confident in that plan.19:55
bkuhn(re: frontaccounting) right, we have a valid "scientific" hypothesis on Frontacccounting based on your initial eval.19:55
joarall this sysadminin impairs my social abilities19:55
bkuhnwell, that's part of the eval  too19:55
bkuhnthe difficulty of installation on these is really frustrating and silly.19:55
joarI just have a hard time doing both at the same time19:56
bkuhnI can't understand why a project wouldn't test and retest their install to make it dead-easy.19:56
bkuhnIsn't that the first thing you need for people to adopt your stuff?19:56
joarI know why. We are not regular users19:56
bkuhn???  not sure I grok?19:56
joarsorry, all these grunts are the sysadmin in me speaking.19:57
joarI think I meant that we have a lot more projects to set up, so we can't spend the same amount of resources as someone who's only goal is to set up one project.19:58
joarbut they are still incredibly hard to set up19:58
bkuhnRight, that's a good point.19:59
joarI will take a break for dinner now, hopefully that will bring my cognitive and social abilities back to normal.19:59
bkuhnNo problem.  If you have time after dinner, let's at least try to finish the front accoutning install and go from there.19:59
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joartryton image is fully synced21:07
joarpackaging frontaccounting21:08
joarbkuhn: frontaccounting set up21:09
bkuhnjoar: ok, is it in a VM?21:09
joarbkuhn: might be easier to just create an HTTP tunnel21:10
bkuhnsure, is it on your box?21:11
joarnope, in a VM21:11
bkuhnoh, hm.21:11
joarbut the VM is surely about 500G21:11
bkuhnthat's big. :)21:12
joarwell, it's an OS :)21:12
bkuhnwell, most base installs are aournd 1G :)21:12
bkuhnI am happy to try it via an HTTP tunnel21:12
bkuhnhow do we do that?21:13
joarI just messed something up21:15
joarhang on21:15
joarand I use pagekite for that21:15
bkuhnok, do I need to install anything for that?  (I looked at pagekite for a few minutes)21:19
bkuhn(it looks like not)21:19
joarbkuhn: ^^21:24
joarvagrant, for both21:25
bkuhnHrm, "Direct Invoice" link doesn't work.21:27
joarit seems like it's very slow21:28
joarCPU load is == 021:29
joarmemory might be too low21:30
bkuhnah, working now21:30
joarshould I reboot the VM with more memory?21:31
joaroh, I see21:35
joarfrontaccounting tries to get the current exchange rate, then it times out21:35
bkuhnI'm getting a pagekite error BTW21:36
joarit works for me21:37
bkuhnhappened once or twice, trying again21:39
joarit works for me at least21:39
bkuhnOk, it's working21:42
bkuhnI'm writing up an eval of it21:42
bkuhnand improving the eval template at the same time .21:42
bkuhnso, if you can leave this running, you can pay attention to something else.21:42
bkuhnok, is consistently giving me pagekite error21:49
bkuhnjoar: ^21:50
joarthat's really weird21:50
bkuhnit's working again21:52
bkuhnmaybe reload doesn't really work21:52
bkuhn(I was doing shift-reload)21:52
joari still get an error on that page21:52
joarI've message the #pagekite team21:52
joarthey might be sleeping22:01
bkuhnno problem22:09
bkuhnI was able to figure out what I was using that page to figure out.22:09
joarTrying to read about Kuali, the language they use is really hard to grasp for me as a developer22:28
joarbkuhn: Kuali had a "goofy license", is that a motive for elimination?22:33
bkuhnI think it probably is..... I 'd meant to look for the licence on the FSF and OSI lists22:34
joarit says "OSI certified"22:34
joarbut that might not be true22:34
bkuhnIt appears OSI approved
bkuhnAnd FSF approved:
joarthere are some "Portions Copyright ..."22:35
joar.. which just state "All rights reserved"22:36
bkuhnYeah, you mentioned22:45
bkuhnthat All Rights Reserved is a goofy notice, but it's clearly licensed fs22:45
bkuhnFree Software22:45
bkuhnSo, I think we should spend some time looking at Kuali22:46
bkuhnprobably not to day22:46
bkuhnFor my part, I'm focused on finishing my eval of Frontaccouting today22:46
joarthey don't seem to have any open community22:47
joarYes, I understand.22:47
bkuhnYeah, that's a point against them for sure.22:47
bkuhn(I'm also finalizing the point-by-point Eval template)22:47
joarthat's good22:47
joarbkuhn: the campaign page mentions that GNOME has pledged to evaluate GNUCash22:49
joarand also, FSF pledged to evaluate SQL-Ledger22:49
joaronce your point-by-point template is done, it might be a good idea to remind GNOME, FSF.22:49
joarunless I have misunderstood something.22:49
joaralso, I have not received the book you ordered me.22:51
joariirc it might take up to four weeks for amazon to deliver to sweden.22:51
bkuhnI pinged GNOME and FSF already (two days ago) on that stuff.22:53
bkuhnFSF is in the middle of their biannual giving campaign22:53
bkuhnThe main question I have for FSF is how they're doing fund accounting in SQL-Ledger.22:54
joarbkuhn: how's it going?23:26
bkuhnjoar: I got distracted by something, sorry.  I'll finish it tonight.  Frontaccoutning won't be on your list tomorrow morning. :)23:26
joarbkuhn: do you still need the instance running?23:27
bkuhnjoar: do you mind leaving.23:27
bkuhner leaving it running?23:27
bkuhnif it's not possible to leave it running after you go to bed, I understand.23:28
joarI was planning on booting into windows.23:28
bkuhnthat sounds horrible. :)23:28
bkuhnok, go ahead and kill it, I think I've seen what I need.23:28
joarYes, it is a tradeoff if you want to play AAA PC games.23:28
bkuhnI may ask you to boot it one more time tomorrow to finish up23:28
bkuhnjoar: as long as you're willing to make it go one more time tomorrow, I think it's ok to let it go now.23:29
joarOk, I'll shut it down for now. See you tomorrow bkuhn :)23:29
bkuhnEnjoy your proprietary software games :)23:29
joarand thanks for today23:29
joarI feel dirty now.23:29
joar(re proprietary games)23:30
bkuhnjoar: actually lemme try one more thing23:30
bkuhnno it's ok.23:30
joarbringing it back up23:31
joarI will bring it back up for another 15 minutes23:31
bkuhndon't need that lon I'll be quick23:31
joarI have to do some things anyway23:31
joarit's up again23:31
bkuhnjoar: ok I'm done, thanks23:33
joaryou're welcome, have a good night!23:41

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